<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:series="http://unfoldingneurons.com/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Dungeons and Dragons, the Tactical Game</title>
	<atom:link href="http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/</link>
	<description>Inspired 4e Design</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 08 Nov 2011 04:35:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gamecrafters&#8217; Guild &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Role-Playing Made Difficult?</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2256</link>
		<dc:creator>Gamecrafters&#8217; Guild &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Role-Playing Made Difficult?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2256</guid>
		<description>[...] on the At-Will blog there&#8217;s a post about D&amp;D being a tactical game first and foremost. I think that this is generally true for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on the At-Will blog there&#8217;s a post about D&amp;D being a tactical game first and foremost. I think that this is generally true for [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: j_king</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2215</link>
		<dc:creator>j_king</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2215</guid>
		<description>You could min-max in the older games too.

I think it&#039;s a player choice in how they approach the game.

My favorite character of late has been a dwarven rogue I built. He&#039;s a fleshed out character with a cool story and features, but I also did choose cool powers and feats that would give some sort of edge in combat. He&#039;s a very versatile character IMO and not short on role-play for it.

Combat has become more tactical to be sure, but I don&#039;t believe it&#039;s at the behest of role-play. I look at it as a blessing; for once the combat rules are pretty clear and deterministic. However, I haven&#039;t really noticed if any of the publications discourage house-ruling or modifying the game to suite your group&#039;s needs. In fact, I believe it&#039;s generally encouraged if it will make the game more fun for your group.

The game really depends on the players. Rules are rules only in so far as you are willing to follow them. They are after all, made to be broken. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could min-max in the older games too.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a player choice in how they approach the game.</p>
<p>My favorite character of late has been a dwarven rogue I built. He&#8217;s a fleshed out character with a cool story and features, but I also did choose cool powers and feats that would give some sort of edge in combat. He&#8217;s a very versatile character IMO and not short on role-play for it.</p>
<p>Combat has become more tactical to be sure, but I don&#8217;t believe it&#8217;s at the behest of role-play. I look at it as a blessing; for once the combat rules are pretty clear and deterministic. However, I haven&#8217;t really noticed if any of the publications discourage house-ruling or modifying the game to suite your group&#8217;s needs. In fact, I believe it&#8217;s generally encouraged if it will make the game more fun for your group.</p>
<p>The game really depends on the players. Rules are rules only in so far as you are willing to follow them. They are after all, made to be broken. <img src='http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TC Dale</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2211</link>
		<dc:creator>TC Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2211</guid>
		<description>This is an eternal point of contention with a friend of mine.  He&#039;s a min-maxer (he says &quot;optimizer&quot;), which he insists is necessary to have a fun game.  I&#039;m of the opinion that you don&#039;t need to min-max to have fun, and indeed, one of my most fun (3.5e) games was with a party that most people would consider so unoptimized that it hurt:  a melee ranger, an archer ranger, and a cleric.  And the archer ranger absolutely refused to go into melee, EVER, for roleplay reasons, so that didn&#039;t leave us with a lot of &quot;staying power&quot;.  Nonetheless, we adapted, we survived, and we had a ton of fun doing it.

The tactical thing I&#039;ve noticed with my recent first session of 4e.  The emphasis on push and pull is interesting and very different.  However, I agree, most people are set on maximizing everything, and the push on combat for D&amp;D justifies this in a way.  It&#039;s always more fun to survive than not survive.

I myself have been thinking of trying a related-but-not-the-same system, like True20, or maybe just houseruling a total mish-mash of what I like from various games and seeing if I can create something fun without introducing major balance issues.  3.5 has its limitations, 4e I&#039;m very skeptical about, and 2e was a bit too complex for me (although maybe I should go re-read it, it&#039;s been a while).

Min-maxing and metagaming:  the worst things to happen to RPGs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an eternal point of contention with a friend of mine.  He&#8217;s a min-maxer (he says &#8220;optimizer&#8221;), which he insists is necessary to have a fun game.  I&#8217;m of the opinion that you don&#8217;t need to min-max to have fun, and indeed, one of my most fun (3.5e) games was with a party that most people would consider so unoptimized that it hurt:  a melee ranger, an archer ranger, and a cleric.  And the archer ranger absolutely refused to go into melee, EVER, for roleplay reasons, so that didn&#8217;t leave us with a lot of &#8220;staying power&#8221;.  Nonetheless, we adapted, we survived, and we had a ton of fun doing it.</p>
<p>The tactical thing I&#8217;ve noticed with my recent first session of 4e.  The emphasis on push and pull is interesting and very different.  However, I agree, most people are set on maximizing everything, and the push on combat for D&amp;D justifies this in a way.  It&#8217;s always more fun to survive than not survive.</p>
<p>I myself have been thinking of trying a related-but-not-the-same system, like True20, or maybe just houseruling a total mish-mash of what I like from various games and seeing if I can create something fun without introducing major balance issues.  3.5 has its limitations, 4e I&#8217;m very skeptical about, and 2e was a bit too complex for me (although maybe I should go re-read it, it&#8217;s been a while).</p>
<p>Min-maxing and metagaming:  the worst things to happen to RPGs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anarkeith</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2209</link>
		<dc:creator>Anarkeith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2209</guid>
		<description>The battlemat seems like it&#039;s here to stay (and, I think, it offers something to those who prefer the tactical game.) I believe we&#039;ll get the most mileage out of encouraging role-play through emphasizing flavor over factors, as others have suggested here. That is going to require creativity and imagination, and starts with the GM. From there, good players will pick it up and eventually it will become the default &quot;way to play&quot;.

Otherwise the min-max style will win out, as it does in CRPGs, simply because players assume the point of the game is the level grind instead of the story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The battlemat seems like it&#8217;s here to stay (and, I think, it offers something to those who prefer the tactical game.) I believe we&#8217;ll get the most mileage out of encouraging role-play through emphasizing flavor over factors, as others have suggested here. That is going to require creativity and imagination, and starts with the GM. From there, good players will pick it up and eventually it will become the default &#8220;way to play&#8221;.</p>
<p>Otherwise the min-max style will win out, as it does in CRPGs, simply because players assume the point of the game is the level grind instead of the story.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JackOfHearts</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2208</link>
		<dc:creator>JackOfHearts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2208</guid>
		<description>I would love to get some tips on running combat encounters in 4e without the battle mat.  I never used to use it but I feel stuck with it for even pretty simple encounters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would love to get some tips on running combat encounters in 4e without the battle mat.  I never used to use it but I feel stuck with it for even pretty simple encounters.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kirin</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2207</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 05:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2207</guid>
		<description>This is pretty relevant to my own most recent blog-post, where I&#039;ve been struggling with my own (and my group&#039;s) tendencies toward combat-heavy hack-and-slash. I feel a pretty big part of our group&#039;s embracing of 4e (and we love love LOVE our more cinematic, tactically-challenging combats) is that the non-combat roleplaying has been, supposedly, freed up from a lot of 3e&#039;s constraints but we have as yet not been able to switch our play-style away from being mechanics-focused.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is pretty relevant to my own most recent blog-post, where I&#8217;ve been struggling with my own (and my group&#8217;s) tendencies toward combat-heavy hack-and-slash. I feel a pretty big part of our group&#8217;s embracing of 4e (and we love love LOVE our more cinematic, tactically-challenging combats) is that the non-combat roleplaying has been, supposedly, freed up from a lot of 3e&#8217;s constraints but we have as yet not been able to switch our play-style away from being mechanics-focused.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gamefiend</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2206</link>
		<dc:creator>gamefiend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2206</guid>
		<description>On my end, 4e hasn&#039;t done anything but smooth out the combat bits of the game --the players who are used to the system really flow with it-- and formalize/structure RP bits to help more introverted people get into the RP more. In a lot of ways 4e allows more free-form RPing than previous editions.

I agree with wyatt when he says that you can easily &quot;skin&quot; anything you want.  It&#039;s easy to feel constrained by powers and the battlemat, but if you look a step beyond it, you can see that those features free you up to do whatever you want. 

I&#039;m running two games now.  One is a standard high-fantasy game that&#039;s starting to go heavy on the intrigue and politics in the paragon tier, and another has the PCs working as archaelogists in a post-apocalyptic fantasy world.  4e has worked wonderfully for those games, and both often see no use for the battlemat whatsoever.

When there is use for it, I do my best to keep it from being just a tactical exercise.  Battlefields shift, monsters cajole the players, etc.  

For roleplaying, I&#039;ve always felt that less is more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On my end, 4e hasn&#8217;t done anything but smooth out the combat bits of the game &#8211;the players who are used to the system really flow with it&#8211; and formalize/structure RP bits to help more introverted people get into the RP more. In a lot of ways 4e allows more free-form RPing than previous editions.</p>
<p>I agree with wyatt when he says that you can easily &#8220;skin&#8221; anything you want.  It&#8217;s easy to feel constrained by powers and the battlemat, but if you look a step beyond it, you can see that those features free you up to do whatever you want. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m running two games now.  One is a standard high-fantasy game that&#8217;s starting to go heavy on the intrigue and politics in the paragon tier, and another has the PCs working as archaelogists in a post-apocalyptic fantasy world.  4e has worked wonderfully for those games, and both often see no use for the battlemat whatsoever.</p>
<p>When there is use for it, I do my best to keep it from being just a tactical exercise.  Battlefields shift, monsters cajole the players, etc.  </p>
<p>For roleplaying, I&#8217;ve always felt that less is more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JackOfHearts</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2205</link>
		<dc:creator>JackOfHearts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2205</guid>
		<description>@Exedore6: I agree mostly, but disagree with you on skill challenges.  They formalized running non-combat challenges with a statistical model for successes over failures which tends to encourage math thinking instead of creative thinking even if it doesn&#039;t have to. It is certainly still possible to run and completely enjoy a skill challenge, but the formalization of it isn&#039;t a swing away from tactical gaming.  

@Dyson: I&#039;m not sure how we would play 4e without a battle grid and tokens.  You&#039;d either have far better processing power than I do or you&#039;d have to be simplifying the game system.  Sounds like either way, it works.

@Dar: Sounds like fun! Enjoy it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Exedore6: I agree mostly, but disagree with you on skill challenges.  They formalized running non-combat challenges with a statistical model for successes over failures which tends to encourage math thinking instead of creative thinking even if it doesn&#8217;t have to. It is certainly still possible to run and completely enjoy a skill challenge, but the formalization of it isn&#8217;t a swing away from tactical gaming.  </p>
<p>@Dyson: I&#8217;m not sure how we would play 4e without a battle grid and tokens.  You&#8217;d either have far better processing power than I do or you&#8217;d have to be simplifying the game system.  Sounds like either way, it works.</p>
<p>@Dar: Sounds like fun! Enjoy it!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dar</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2204</link>
		<dc:creator>dar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2204</guid>
		<description>Oh, I forgot to add, those are our RPGA characters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I forgot to add, those are our RPGA characters.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dar</title>
		<link>http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/2009/07/dungeons-and-dragons-the-tactical-game/comment-page-1/#comment-2203</link>
		<dc:creator>dar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://at-will.omnivangelist.net/?p=884#comment-2203</guid>
		<description>Suboptimal in 4e? Yes.

My kid made a Dragonborn wizard that thinks he is an elf.

I made an Eladrin cleric that charges into battle cause the durn dragon born does first... then pays for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suboptimal in 4e? Yes.</p>
<p>My kid made a Dragonborn wizard that thinks he is an elf.</p>
<p>I made an Eladrin cleric that charges into battle cause the durn dragon born does first&#8230; then pays for it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk
Page Caching using disk (enhanced)
Object Caching 491/506 objects using disk
Content Delivery Network via Amazon Web Services: CloudFront: Amazon Web Services: S3: d2jur2ghb1yy8m.cloudfront.net

Served from: at-will.omnivangelist.net @ 2012-02-11 02:43:27 -->
